Why can't we just get along?I think we can ,and develop new friendships and learn to be considerate ,kind and loving.Just yesterday Josh Jergenson at the young age of 19 was on the phone with me and i was talking about how God is good and i see him working in my dad's life because he is home from the hospital after I seen him come very close to death in other words it's faith that keeps us close to God but love for one another is even greater then faith Josh pointed out .During my father's stay in the hospital my two brothers and I had been taking turns staying nights at the hospital,caring for my father and letting see the love we have for him ,and letting him know that we are right there next to him till the end ,no matter what, and that supports him, and gives him strength to live and go forward.It humbles us to see him so weak and frail but I told him "when we were little you took care of us and now it is our turn to care for you",,,it makes more sense and is God's plan that we care and love one another rather then hurting each other. I'm sorry to derail this thread I just want to point out that we should be respectful of another's opinions -and that is important to keep this site fresh ,helpful,clean ,respectful and a benefit to those that come in to gain knowledge and enjoy our adventures.I for one am greatful for all your contributions including "the rod","cape haze"and "hoogan"I know each and everyone of you and am honored to call each and everyone of you a personal friend.
Thanks -Will
SOUTH FLORIDA SHARK CLUB -President SFSC-Founding Member est 1983 SFSC-Website Administrator BIG HAMMER SHARK TOURNAMENT -Founder Rene Memorial Sharkathon -Founder NMFS Shark Tagger
Thank you Will.
ANY OF YOU GUYS PUT A GIMBAL ON THE BOTTOM OF THESE?
i'M GOING TO TRY TO PUT A PIECE OF ANOTHER CHEAP BLANK EPOXY IT INSIDE THE SHARK UNLTD AND JUST HAVE ENOUGH STICK OUT FOR ADDING A GIMBAL.
I appoligize to all.
Hey Hoogan,
Just saw this thread. I know, I know, I'm always a day late and a dollar short. Great thread minus the testostrone which Willam handled perfectly. By the way, not to start anything again but I would not build a rod without an underwrap. I have replaced too many guides on factory wrapped rods that did not have an underwrap and the blanks were damaged by the guide feet.
Just wondered what your opnion was on stripper guides. You didn't include them in the materials description. With the line height coming off the larger reels that we use, do you think it puts a lot of lifting strain on the first guide if it is a convential guide that sits low on the rod? Do you think that the line running under the closest roller on the stripper relieves some of that strain? If you use a roller stripper and a roller tip, do you think that the rest of the guides should be rollers as well or should they be mixed. Have you seen any rod building articles on using a mixture of rollers and straight guides? I'll be interested in seeing your response and I don't think that there is only one way to build a rod or that I am any kind of authority, so don't feel threatened. I learned to build rods by making mistakes.
Hey Sharkark,
Thanks for replying.
Totally agree about the testosterone thing...however, no one is totally right or wrong, usually there's my story - your story and the truth somewhere in the middle...
Now,
Totally concurr with you regarding always using an underwrap.
As far as using a stripper roller guide, here's my take:
I think the trend started years ago in South Beach ( I can say that since I grew up in South Beach) Here's the trend:
Most long/bridge shark rods are built as follows: a double roller stripper guide, followed by a series of cheap - heat and friction generating - rough surfaced foul proof wire guides and then a roller tip. 
Does that make any sence? to have a stripper roller guide followed by the rough and friction causing guides that can and DO damage your monofilament when one can purchase FUJI's ceramic ringed guides for approx. $1.50 more per guide over the wire foul proof guides?
If you are already investing on a rod build up did you know that for less than $15 (total) over inefficient wire guides you can have heavy duty FUJI Hardloys?
I do not find it necessary to use a roller stripper guide specially if the rest of my guides are diamond polished FUJI (or other brand name) silky smooth guides.
I do feel that the top is crucial to use a roller guide due to the sharp angle, but not on the first guide, you can use a #25 turbo style guide which seats petty high on the blank to smooth out the angle from the large diamater reel.
Thanks for posting your opinion.
By Sharkark
Ive seen people loose sharks because of a lot of things but Guides are not at the top or even the middle of the list. That being said, there are some things that make me prefer rollers. It just a preference based on some of what I think of as logic but still just my opnion. More later.
>As far as using a stripper roller guide, here's my take:
>I think the trend started years ago in South Beach ( I can say that since I grew up in South Beach) >Here's the trend:
>Most long/bridge shark rods are built as follows: a double roller stripper guide, followed by a series
>of cheap - heat and friction generating - rough surfaced foul proof wire guides and then a roller tip.
>Does that make any sence?
Not to me it doesn't. Aftco (They have the name and have been around for awhile) has published all kinds of data showing that a mixture of rollers and straight guides is not preferable and doesn't benefit much. They have even shown that rollers cast just as far as conventional guides. Go figure on that one. Add to that the rough surface that you mention and you have a formula for line damage during a long battle with a shark.
>I do not find it necessary to use a roller stripper guide specially if the rest of my guides are diamond >polished FUJI (or other brand name) silky smooth guides.
I like rollers (Big foot) for the height off the rod. When you use a conventional guide in the first position it can't be mounted too far foward or the line will touch the blank or even go under it when the rod gets a healty bend. If you move it too close, it creats a lot of lifting pressure on the line coming down off the larger 12,14,16/0s. The smoother insert guide reduces that friction a little but not as much as a roller. The roller can be mounted closer to the reel and it allows additional clearance between the blank and your hand.
>I do feel that the top is crucial to use a roller guide due to the sharp angle, but not on the first
>guide, you can use a #25 turbo style guide which seats petty high on the blank to smooth out the
>angle from the large diamater reel.
The 25 Turbo measures about 3/4" off the rod and a big foot roller is about 1 1/4". That's a 1/2" higher. That's another 1/2" clearence before the line starts digging into the top of my hand.
Now when it comes to price, the conventional guides have it hands down and you are going to have your 500 dollar rod and then some if you use rollers. It's a proven fact though that rollers,when working properly, do much less damage to your line than even the best cermanic insert guides.
Are rollers overkill? Maybe. My longest fight so far is 4 1/2 hours and I was glad I had rollers. Would I have lost the shark if I'd had straight guides? Don't know but probably not. Still, I like rollers and they look neater too.
What do you think?
Very informative reply.
I will say that I agree with everything that you said.
Again I was trying to stay on a $300 budget with my thread.
As far as rollers are concerned, I prefer them as well but l like them thru the lenght of the rod.
I would NOT use a stripper roller - followed by a series of cheap wire guides and then a roller on top. 
Like you I also prefer the Wind-on or Big Foot guides, they are friendly on wind-on leaders and Bimini's go right thru without getting stock, also (as you said) seat higher on the blank to avoid blank contact.
Are rollers for every one? - Nope - actually MOST fisherman do not spray their rollers with lubricant or water dispersant after fishing and (as you probably know) they bring me their rods complaining that the rollers are siezed up .... and they wonder how that happened.
Yep, a combination of rollers and anything else is not the way to go. You might mix them with an insert guide but even that isn't as good as all rollers. But then again, if cost is a factor, the insert and roller combination would be better than wire guides. It's just one of those things that gets started and then perpetuates itself. Someone builds a rod like that and catches a nice shark. Someone else see them doing it and wants a rod just like the one that caught the shark, and so it goes.
As for rollers, they do require upkeep and if they aren't kept up, a person is better off with straight guides.
So then on the SHARK UNLIMITED blank, how many roller guides?
Stripper + 8 + Tip? etc....?
Not really familiar with the "shark unlimited" blank but I place rollers the old fashion way. I put on the grips and reel seat and tip. Might want to find the spine before you do that if you feel that is important. Next I mount a reel, hopefully the one I'll be using on the rod and string your 8 rollers on starting with the smallest and lastly the stripper. Now you need a second person and some tape maybe even a harness and belt. Put the best bend you can in the rod and slide the roller closest to the tip back until the line is off the blank. Tape it in place. Repeat for each successive roller. You may have to make some minor adjustment to get the stripper right and not have it be too far foward from the reel and not too close to the next roller. If anything you may have a wider spacing between the stripper and the next roller and that's ok because the rod doesn't bend very much there. It's old school but its always worked for me and it takes in to account individual varaitions in blanks. Anyone have other methods?
ElTiburon,
Everything sharkark said plus keep in mind that if you use the higher profile Bigfoot or AFTCO Wind-on guides you can get away with less guides than a lower seating guide.
Are you planning on building a 10 footer or are you cutting some from the bottom of the blank?
Yeah, it'll be a 10'er but gonna try some turbo guides first, I think I may have found a tip that will fit, if so I'm in business, if not then no worries, rollers it is.
I think turbos will look and perform great, i would not use rollers on a rod that's 10 foot long either. I would however use a roller tip.
AFTCO maker their big foot tip up to size 36 the unlimmited blank says it only takes a 28 tip so you're in bussiness.
Good fishin'
two questions
Is there another 10' blank available besides the Mudhole Gator Shark 80-unlimited?
I read the advantages to underwraps on the guides, giving them a bed, and keeping the guides from damaging the blank, is there any reason not to underwrap other then saving time?