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The down fall of a Level Drag reel and braid NOT MONO!

boghy
(@boghy)
Honorable Member

The other day i got crazy enough to do some tests to different level drag reels, from a manufacture that they asked me to run they tests, and to my surprise, the reels were fine BUT - the braid - not so much.
The tests were run around 50lbs drag, 15-20mph, 300yds, pulled by a car, where these reels were literally smoked worse then a big cigar. After letting them cool down, we tried another test, yet to find out the drag was GONE. So, we figure, well the washers didn't last long - go figure right? - but NO - it was actually something else and here is what happened; because the drag washers on the level drag are attached on the spool, when high, long runs occur, the spool tends to heat up to a point where it will start expending a bit. The laws of physics kicks in, obviously - so now when that spool gets back to the initial temperature (outside temperature) the spool contracts back, BUT NOT THE ALREADY PUSHED OUT BRAID. Since braid has virtually no stretch, when the spool expends by the heat, the braid doesn't do the same thing. So, by that the braid will have enough gap, to skip the spool once when the spool reel contracts back. Now it makes complete sense why we hear stories of braid skipping the spool, and now i understand why as well. Star drags won't have this problem since the heat won't occur on the spool side, like level drags, it happens on the star side only.
I just thought i'll share with you guys this info.

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Topic starter Posted : 11/18/2012 11:28 am
slasherx4
(@slasherx4)
Noble Member

I'm sorry to say this, but that reel isn't worth the money if the spool cannot maintain its shape during a prolonged battle, that surely would have been a monster fish lost. My hammer ran 250-300 yards on the initial run at a faster speed and with the same (if not more) drag, then proceeded with a few similar shorter runs. Even with a back harness the reel foot plate of my 12/0 was slightly bent because it is not made for the custom drag system in the reel.

Braided lines do have a tendency to spread spools under intense pressure because of its ability to pack so tightly into itself. It's not simply the heating of the reel, you can spread a cheaper spool that is locked down just because of accumulated millimeters added to the width of braid or dacron as it compresses into itself. The first wide spool reels had this problem, that's why it's recommended to add a sufficient mono backing to avoid line slippage and spool spreading.

It's a wonder why the "ancient dinosaur" (as I was recently mocked for my inadequate reel) penn senators come through time and time again, even against today's beastly reels and superior lines. In a prolonged fight, mono always takes the icing off the cake. ;)

P.S. My theory for braid users is to fill a reels with enough braid to be equal to or greater than the length of its mono equivalent after being stretched out to its maximum.

Just an average fisherman.

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Posted : 11/18/2012 12:32 pm
boghy
(@boghy)
Honorable Member

Well, these reel didn't skip any line while the spools were hot, so technically the drag was still performing as it should, BUT when the spool cold down completely, only then the braid had the skip on the spool. It toke about an hour to cool down completely in FL heat, which is plenty of time to land a fish, but after that it would be useless because of that skip, till respooled.

Having trouble calculating your line capacity on your reel?
Try my self-coded Line Calculator with instructions - calculates line conversions and topshots!

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Topic starter Posted : 11/18/2012 2:07 pm
slasherx4
(@slasherx4)
Noble Member

The spool wasn't designed to just expand, it's a compromised structure that shouldn't be taken for a dependable piece of machinery. What good is an engine if it blows up the car? I know it's a lot easier said than done, but that company is going to have to come up with better metals or reel structure to sustain the drag it wishes to soundly advertise.

In their defense, you are pushing the reel to extremes... but somebody always wants to push things to the limit. That's probably one of the reason most line companies advertise line rated lower than its actual breaking point.

I think it's a good reel, but if you get a chance to test a fresh one, start with lower drag settings and find its exact breaking point to report back to the company. You may also consider more realistic fighting conditions. Have the car stop, gain some line, start again randomly as a fish would.

I've noticed a big problem with tackle is that although you can bump that drag pressure up on a running fish, once it runs at you then back out again with those same drag settings your line may pop. To prevent this I use shocker systems and back off of the drag on many fish instinctively as I've learned over the years.

Just an average fisherman.

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Posted : 11/18/2012 3:37 pm
boghy
(@boghy)
Honorable Member

You're right in your post. I'll have to see what route they wanna go, although i never though about heat and level drags in general.

Having trouble calculating your line capacity on your reel?
Try my self-coded Line Calculator with instructions - calculates line conversions and topshots!

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Topic starter Posted : 11/18/2012 7:01 pm
jonathanbryan
(@jonathanbryan)
Prominent Member

The other day i got crazy enough to do some tests to different level drag reels, from a manufacture that they asked me to run they tests, and to my surprise, the reels were fine BUT - the braid - not so much.
The tests were run around 50lbs drag, 15-20mph, 300yds, pulled by a car, where these reels were literally smoked worse then a big cigar. After letting them cool down, we tried another test, yet to find out the drag was GONE. So, we figure, well the washers didn't last long - go figure right? - but NO - it was actually something else and here is what happened; because the drag washers on the level drag are attached on the spool, when high, long runs occur, the spool tends to heat up to a point where it will start expending a bit. The laws of physics kicks in, obviously - so now when that spool gets back to the initial temperature (outside temperature) the spool contracts back, BUT NOT THE ALREADY PUSHED OUT BRAID. Since braid has virtually no stretch, when the spool expends by the heat, the braid doesn't do the same thing. So, by that the braid will have enough gap, to skip the spool once when the spool reel contracts back. Now it makes complete sense why we hear stories of braid skipping the spool, and now i understand why as well. Star drags won't have this problem since the heat won't occur on the spool side, like level drags, it happens on the star side only.
I just thought i'll share with you guys this info.

thaks Boghy i like it ;) ;) ;) ;)

"I am the new Shark Slayer in town"

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Posted : 11/19/2012 7:51 am
stellarol
(@stellarol)
Prominent Member

This is one type of reel, so I wouldn't post a generic title like that. There are many companies that make reliable reels that would take your test with no problems. But for those reels you will have to shell out the cash.

Team HUGE Gear Captain
"GET SOME!"

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Posted : 11/19/2012 1:51 pm
slasherx4
(@slasherx4)
Noble Member

This is one type of reel, so I wouldn't post a generic title like that. There are many companies that make reliable reels that would take your test with no problems. But for those reels you will have to shell out the cash.

But the point of this reel is to take the test for its size. I don't think any company has similar specifications. As far as vertical jigging goes, I'd rather use a spinning reel that can handle those big fish so I can enjoy the fight more than levelwinding. That tuna and GT popping stuff is great!

Just an average fisherman.

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Posted : 11/19/2012 2:23 pm
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